Kirk Cameron, from teen idol to borned-again gay basher

Note: This post was originally written for my previous blog, back when I was much less concerned with how I might be perceived by people who might have power over me. I was very angry when I wrote it, and responded to its critics with condescension and sarcasm. Profanity aside, I stand by the gist of the post and my comments; I still believe Kirk Cameron and Ray Comfort miss the entire point of Christianity. That said, I did some editing before reposting it here.

Kirk Cameron is the Devil

God, I hate Kirk Cameron. Sweet Jesus, I hate Kirk Cameron. Jesus, Mary, and Joseph, I hate Kirk Cameron. Jesus Christ on a crutch, I hate Kirk Cameron. (By the way, what up with the “Jesus Christ on a crutch” — why isn’t it Jesus Christ on the cross, on a crux, on a Roman soldier’s sword? Hmm.) According to Mike Seaver, I am going to hell, not only for all of that blasphemous, taking the Lord’s name stuff I just wrote, but especially because I like the man-sex.

(By the way, is the commandment against taking the Lord’s name in vain the stupidest one? Or is it the one about envy? I can’t decide. Envy is an involuntary response to noticing you have less than someone else and then wanting more. The people who say they aren’t envious of another person are liars. And by saying “God,” how am I taking the Lord’s name in vain? God is not his name, you dipshits. It’s Yahweh, or something like that. Also, what does swearing have to do with being a good person? Nothing. But the Bible, a series of short stories and shaggy-dog jokes written by psychological suspect cultists several thousands of years ago, says, depending on the translation, that I’m going to Hell for saying, “Sweet Jesus!” Dude, I get the thou-shalt-not-kill shit, but swearing means nothing. Read Saussure.)

I found out that Kirk had gone the way of the brainwashed when I saw some E! where-are-they-now show a few years ago. Wait! you say. Who the Hell is Kirk Cameron? you ask. He was the Michael J. Fox wannabe on the “Family Ties” wannabe, “Growing Pains,” in the late 80s. He was super cute. Actually, he still is, in a Joe Pitt sorta way. Anyway, Kirk was borned again (as I like to say it) some time after his fame went all CoreyFeldmanCoreyHaimLeifGarrettRalphMacchio on him. Gee, down and depressed, looking for meaning? Try brainwashing! Suddenly failure is irrelevant! All you need to worry about is waiting for Judgment Day and ruining the lives of gay people!

Anyway. Anyway. Anyway. I thought he was keeping it to himself, or at least keeping it to acting is those bad movies based on the Left Behind books.

But nooooooo.

He and this little irritating Kiwi who looks like a cross between Davy Jones and Sonny Bono, Ray Comfort, have a borned again TV show (video series, website, cereal, chewing gum, toothpaste, etc.) called “The Way of the Master”. (The wiki-version is here.) The idea is that they go around and “talk to people about Christianity.” Actually, they go around and ask people whether or not they’ve taken the Lord’s name in vain, stolen anything, or done any ass-fucking. And they tell them they’re going to Hell. It’s fun for the whole family–except your gay uncle!

Last night, Rob and I were in bed–in our homosexual love den where we blurt out “Jesus Christ!” when the cats wake us up, where we envy people who don’t have to wake up and feed their cats at 5am every morning, and where we drink the blood of babies after we’ve sodomized them–flipping through the channels and we came across the episode of “The Way of the Master” where Kirk and Ray get all Biblical on the fags. Lucky us!

They spent a lot of time quoting the Bible, rolling passages up and down the screen, kind of like FBI warning on videos. Now, I’m not “religious,” but even I knew that the passages they were quoting were rather specious translations. As in Hitler’s translations. The most glaring? The four or five passages that had the word “homosexuals” in them. Considering that neither the word nor the idea existed until the end of the 19th century, you gotta wonder what was really being referred to. But rocks-for-brains “Christians” like Kirk and Roy aren’t worried about translations and what the psychological suspect cultists who wrote the Bible really meant. They just want you to go to Hell. Hell! Hell! Hell!

At one point, Kirk and Ray are driving down the highway in a convertible–What would Jesus drive?–and they are discussing strategies for dealing with their “homosexual friends and family members,” as if they have any gay friends or any gay family members who would be willing talk to them. The strategies come right out of How to Win Friends and Influence People. “Don’t go up to them and tell them that God hates homosexuals and they’re going to Hell, because then they’ll just get defensive. Instead, say, ‘I’m really worried about your eternal soul because the Bible says that what you’re doing isn’t right.’ Let them know how worried you are and then they’ll think about what they’re doing.” Well, now that I know Kirk’s strategy, I’ll be prepared!

Then Roy takes to the streets and interviews some queers. One was a very smart, articulate gay Catholic. He was one of those I-practice-but-the-Catholic-Church-is-whacked folks who impress me. They stay even though they get beaten up every Sunday. Anyway, he smiled and answered Roy’s insipid, insulting questions, and said that he was a good person who would be judged for who he was not whether or not he followed the Bible word-for-word. Then Roy quizzed a 50something transsexual, who had taken the Lord’s name in vain and lied about his gender, and Roy told him he was going to Hell. That’s when I had to turn off the TV. It was worse than the gay-bashing on “American Idol.” Well, maybe not worse. About that same.

I was pissed as I was trying to get to sleep. Kirk. Kirk. Kirk. Why don’t you do something constructive? Like building houses for Katrina victims. Like helping Bono get cheap HIV drugs to developing nations. Like working towards peace, arms reduction, and fair economic policy. Oh, what’s that? Oh, right, I guess it is more important to ruin the lives of good people than the help the poor and sick live longer, better lives.

Kirk Cameron = EVIL.

44 responses to this post.

  1. Homer says:

    goddam Kirk! I always thought he had fish lips anyways.

  2. Anonymous says:

    Not sure what you’ll make of this. However, I found it interesting. A friend who is studying to be a “higher up” in her church had this to say recently:

    “My teacher said, ‘When you throw a stick for a dog to fetch and the dog doesn’t see where it lands, you point at where the stick landed. However, the dog keeps looking at your finger–not at the place where you’re pointing. Too many people are looking at the Bible like it’s the stick, when it’s really just the finger.'”

    Hmm.

    PJS

    That’s actually pretty brilliant. —Ed.

  3. liz e. says:

    herr cameron is also the star of the “left behind” movies.

  4. duane says:

    If cursing is a one way ticket to hell, there are a hell of a lot of Catholics on the way down. Kirk Carmeron can just go suck it. All the people that are THAT anti gay really want to anyway. Let’s talk more about his friend “Boner”, why don’t we? HA!

  5. Eric says:

    I think the dog-stick story is a modern take on the “a finger pointing at the moon is not the moon” story. http://www.welikesheep.com/archives/2004/09/a_finger_pointi.html

    American Fundamentalist Evangelical Protestants are really irritating. At least they don’t kill people like many Fundamentalist Muslims like to. Not yet, at least.

  6. LB says:

    Eric…they’ll kill you if you’re an abortion doctor…

  7. Karl says:

    Ray Comfort is from New Zealand, not the UK.

  8. ted says:

    Noted. Fixed.

  9. Megan says:

    You’re brilliant and funny and oh-so correct. Thank you for this. I wish you and your boyfriend the very best of luck. I’ll see you in hell…let’s do lunch!

  10. Anonymous says:

    Setting: Sometime in the not-so-distant future.

    Characters: Kirk, God

    Kirk: Why didn’t you allow me to enter Heaven? Am I not righteous and holy and engaging in coitus through proper openings?

    God: Dude, lighten up! Even I’m not that obsessed about butt-sex and swearing. [Hands Kirk a phatty splif.]

    God: Here. Smoke that! And stop bothering me. I have a dinner with Oscar Wilde and Leonard Bernstein.[Promptly sends Kirk to Hell aka Any Leo DiCaprio Movie on an infinite loop.]

    God: Next!

    Mel Gibson: What did I do wrong?

  11. Anonymous says:

    Hi, no joke I typed in kirk cameron hate site in search blank and this is the first thing I went to: your aricle. I’m so glad I did that. You made me laugh and share the joy of your article wth a friend. Thank you for your infinite wisdom.

  12. the anti-kirk says:

    Yeah. i pretty much can’t stand mike deceiver and his boy ray discomfort, or is it the other way around? they use the apologetic argument. they never ask the opposite of those questions, which would show that most people could answer they are truthful, honest, decent people. one-sided brainwashing is what they are putting out. and besides, the real ten commandments say nothing about lying. just about bearing false witness against others. which those witless witness’s are doin with their false logic. and checking out someone is ok too. 10c’s just says coveting married people is off the menu. unless they are swingers, of course 😉

  13. danielle says:

    Rock on. i totally really hate kirk cameron too. just saw his pro jesus ad on E! and it made me have a suddent rush of hate for that cross chasing f*ck.

  14. Ashey says:

    Hey. Kirk Cameron is such a great inspiration. Can’t you see how much more happy a Godly life is? Look at him for example, out of all the celebraties in the world he is the only one still married to the same wife and loves her dearly. They have the Lord guiding them. He’s such a great man. He stands up for what he believes in even though he knows that everyone around him might hate him for doing it, he does it because he doesn’t want anyone to go to hell, and he cares for you. Even though you don’t want to here it.. It’s very unatural to be gay. God created man and woman, and there’s a reason for that. It’s unhealthy too!

    Hi, Ashey. (Or is it Ashley, and you can’t spell your own name, along with numerous other words?) Thanks for coming by to tell me that my innate existence is unnatural. That’s so Christian of you! Nothing says “Love thy neighbor!” than telling strangers that they’re going to Hell for the way that God, genetics, and their mothers’ hormones made them. If that’s how you lead your life, it’s no wonder than a bigot like Cameron would inspire you. Cameron does not love me; he loves that he can demonize and oppress me. Evangelical Christianity isn’t anything without a minority to scapegoat. Though I doubt anyone who would write “It’s unhealthy too!” in relation to homosexuality understands such things as history, which involves reading, research, and complex thought. —Ed.

  15. Ashey says:

    No my name is Ashey. Sorry I mispelled [sic] things. I understand what you’re coming from, I had an athiest [sic] friend once. It’s a sad thing to not know [sic] the Lord. But you know, only God can change a heart and I’m sorry if I made you upset.

    I find it very hard to believe that you have any idea where I’m coming from, particularly if you think atheism and a distaste for anti-gay bigotry have anything in common. If you think Jesus would encourage his followers to accost people on the street and tell them they are going to hell for loving someone — as Cameron and Comfort did in the TV show I referenced — I don’t think you know the Lord nearly all that well. But thanks for coming by! —Ed.

  16. Ashey says:

    Dear Ed.

    My name is Ted. “Ed.” is short for Editor.

    Being a Christian means making sacrifices, even when they are hard, and difficult to understand.

    Oh, gee. You think I should sacrifice my homosexuality? I should deny my innate self, my love for humanity, my love for my husband, and my sense of justice and ethics because of randomly chosen lines from Leviticus and some really vague, historically situated meanderings in Paul and Timothy? That’s absurd.

    God has blessed you with so many things, and has also taken things away from you and made it hard for all of us so that we could be tested.

    God didn’t make me gay so that I could force myself to be straight, to live a life of sorrow and celibacy. A God who would do that to 5% of the human population is not worth loving, let alone worshiping.

    Or we could have a reason for praising Him. If everything always went well, you might not remember to pray and talk to God (Through Jesus Christ).

    Saying bad things happen so that we remember to pray is the most depressing thing I’ve ever heard. It denies any responsibility or agency for either good or bad things in the world.

    Do you believe there is a God?

    I am agnostic. I think absolute belief in either the existence or non-existence of God is the utmost in arrogance.

    Aren’t you afraid what will happen when your life ends?

    Not remotely. Focusing one’s life on what happens when it is over is a waste of energy. I focus on making the world a better place for people now, because it is the right thing to do, not because I hope for a reward at the end. Being a good person should not be about a quid pro quo with God.

    Please, I don’t want to in any way make you think I am just saying all this to be mean.

    I don’t believe you’re mean. I believe you’ve been seriously deluded by your church. I would feel sorry for you if you simply suffered silently in your ignorance. But instead you feel the need to wander about the Internet repeating lies, and I fear that if you’re willing to do that, you’re probably willing to vote against my rights and my people’s rights. So, instead, my pity turns to scorn.

    I really do care. I care for all nonbelievers.

    Just because I don’t believe what you believe does not make me a non-believer.

    I may not know what you’re going through, but I do know what it’s like to not be saved.

    I am not “going through” anything. And I don’t need or want your pity. I want you and your people to leave me and my people alone. –Ed.

    • Dan Reed says:

      It is strange that when god created Adam he created him in his own image. Therefore I’d this were true then any descendants from Adam and Eve could be gay, lesbian, trans etc….. because the first phrase is he created them in his own image and he saw that it was good. Now if this is GODS word he should have had no problem with homosexuality because he created MAN in his own image. But that’s my interpretation of the bible. Henry the 8th had a good reason why he didn’t want the bible read in his new Church of England in English. There was a reason and he knew that if the faithful heard the bible in their own language it could be interpreted in what ever manner possible. The main passage about a man should not sleep with a man as a woman and vice versa. If you read the rules that are being dictated to society you will find an interesting verse that precedes that verse and it is about brothers and sisters. The next verse then mentions that brother and sisters should not sleep in the same bed as their mothers and fathers do. It’s just a rule to say that brothers and sisters should all have their own beds. Makes sense because close proximity to each other in those days could share nits, mites, fleas and various childhood diseases etc….. we do that in the 20th century. But the passage does not have any connection to homosexuality if you had read the bible in the correct sense ie not sentences at random. But the translations of the bibles are many. St James Bible, New English, Gideon etc….. each has a different perspective. Interestingly the GOD of the Old Testament is totally different to the one in the New Testament. The New Testament doesn’t mention homosexuality at all. It was only Pauls letters to the Corinthians that he seems to centre on sodomy. Really centre on it like tomorrow. So much so that he was actually excommunicated from the first church. Quite correctly the owner of the site states that homosexuality as we know it today only came into being towards the 1800s. Queen Victoria signed into law one of the most draconian laws ever into UK law to be repealed in 1967 sort of. Strange lesbians were never included in the law that Queen Victoria signed it only covered gay me. Another piece of ammo against he gay bashers. Ask them what is the unit they are using to view this page online? It’s called a Turing machine the same Alan Turing who was behind the war effort to decrypt the German codes with enigma. This man is a hero now but wasn’t at the end of the war when he was arrested for having a relationship with a young man who tried to rob him. Rightly so his sentence was quashed in the early 2010s.

  17. You know, every time I see someone attempting to present an opposing point of view I *welcome* it. I just went over to “The Way of the Master” [bator] to watch the “Evolution” bit.

    What a mess. First of all the theory of evolution makes no attempts to explain abiogenesis, much less the big bang. And then they go off doing “person on the street” interviews. Anecdotal evidence as proof?

    God [of Biscuits], these people are pathetic.

    Ashey, try some moisturizer.

  18. Ashey says:

    Okay, no more. My conscience wouldn’t allow me to read what you wrote and not express my concerns, that’s all. Only God changes hearts and I was just pointing the way. I don’t want you to feel that Christians are devoted to striking everything you say because that would be a bad testimony. I just wanted to say that I am praying for you (whether you like it or not) and that I would like us to not have any harsh feelings towards one another. I thank you for your time in writing back, and also answering all of my questions. Oh, and sorry I called you Ed, Lol. I’m not the smartest cookie in the jar sometimes. =)

    Please don’t waste your prayers. If you want to do some good, spend that time reading What the Bible Really Says About Homosexuality or Christianity, Social Tolerance, and Homosexuality. Maybe you’ll learn something. —Ed.

  19. Lee says:

    Good for you, Ted! I have this feeling that Ashey saying “My conscience wouldn’t allow me to read what you wrote and not express my concerns…” MAY be a cop-out for not wanting to admit she can’t really answer you.

  20. slapping41faces says:

    Your just angry that he’s strait and not only that, he’s a christian so you have no chance at all. Go bang off in the dark closet you gay faggot. Your flat out stupid and sound like an idiot. I personally am not a christian but I know for a fact that what you said is wrong.

    Nothing makes me happier than when semi-literate bigots accuse me of being an idiot. —Ed.

  21. slapping41faces says:

    No problem faggot

    Oh, my. You actually came back. Most semi-literate bigots can’t maneuver through the Internet well enough to find their way to the page on which they left their drivel. But for those that do, I wonder why they return. Do they want to see if their slurs caused any harm? Do they actually think they can win the argument? And if they think they can win the argument, I wonder why. I mean, really. I guess when you’re only capable of slurs and nonsense, you probably aren’t aware that you’re only capable of slurs and nonsense. —Ed.

  22. Rev. Dr. TLS says:

    “Focusing one’s life on what happens when it is over is a waste of energy. I focus on making the world a better place for people now, because it is the right thing to do, not because I hope for a reward at the end. Being a good person should not be about a quid pro quo with God.”
    Ted,
    This is perhaps one of the best summaries of the Gospel message that I have ever heard. Thanks! You may find yourself quoted in a sermon someday…
    Paz,
    TLS

  23. David says:

    I heard Kirk got mad at Bush because he thought the program was called “No Child’s Behind Left”

  24. Kirk is a God-bothering douche says:

    I just heard about Kirk’s ridiculous website and his “banana proving intelligent design” theory. Listening to his bigotted nonsense and his blatant disregard for fossil evidence (I’d quite like to go to one of his presentations and just throw actual dinosaur bones at him repeatedly until he shows me the place in the bible where it says “on the 6th day God created dinosaurs”) enraged me so much that I typed “I hate Kirk Cameron” into a search bar; this is where I ended up.
    The guy is a douche and so is Slapping41faces.
    Ted has said everything I want to say and in a much more articulate manner. I just wanted to say that, although this is a very old thread – big up what Ted has to say for himself and well done for defending yourself using intelligent arguements instead of resorting to pathetic namecalling.
    It’s sad coz I think I actually believe even less in god’s existense because of the unforgiving nature that some Christians display. Look at those God Hates America guys who drag their kids out onto the street to protest outside soldiers funerals.
    I don’t know where I am going after this life but if heaven does exist and is filled with these idiots, I’ll be glad I lived in enough sin to go to hell

  25. Eyrev says:

    I love Kirk and have met him once. He shook hands with my boyfriends.
     
    Eyrev
    eyrev.cbcr@gmail.com

  26. petre says:

    Would you consider running a camp for terminally ill people something worthwhile?  And doesn’t that help people live longer better lives?

    Yep. That’s worthwhile. But I’m guessing that he doesn’t invite children with gay parents. Just a hunch. And considering that one of the camp’s missions is to evangelize to the families when the families are at their most vulnerable, I have little respect for it.

    Also, just because someone believes you’re going to hell, as long as they don’t hate you (scream at you and cuss at you and try to harm you…), can you really hate them back?  All muslims believe I’m going to hell.  Doesn’t mean I have to hate muslims.

    Not all Muslims believe that. Just as not all Christians believe Jews, Muslims, or gay people are going to Hell. That said, those that do believe in such absolutes are free to do that, and I don’t really care about them — as long as they do not attack me, either through laws, propaganda, or physical violence. Kirk goes on TV and lies about me.

    Some people share their faith because they care about other people. 

    That is a gross generalization. Some people do this. Many, many people share their faith in order to make themselves feel saved and make other people fear they are not.

    Put yourself in their shoes.  If there’s someone you care about, and you really really believe they’re going to hell, wouldn’t you try to tell them about it?  I mean if you really believed they were going to hell.

    As I wrote in the comments above, “Focusing one’s life on what happens when it is over is a waste of energy. I focus on making the world a better place for people now, because it is the right thing to do, not because I hope for a reward at the end. Being a good person should not be about a quid pro quo with God.” If someone I cared about was doing harm to themselves or others, I would say something. Being gay and loving another man is not causing anyone any harm. The harm we experience for being gay is cause by homophobia, which is propped up and spread by the anti-gay lies told by people like Kirk Cameron.

    It’s interesting that you say that sharing your faith with someone “ruins” gay people’s lives.  A single conversation, ruining their lives?  You make it sound like homosexuals are running around in guilt and trembling, and that a single word disagreeing with their lifestyle will kill them.  A guilty fear like that would indicate that they do indeed know deep down inside that what they’re doing is wrong.  (I dunno, the gay dude I live with isn’t afraid of hearing other viewpoints. )

    Well, that’s one way of completely misreading my post. I never said a single conversation was causing anyone ruin. I thought it was pretty clear that I think the Kirk’s anti-gay evangelism is spreading lies and homophobia, which is helping ruin people’s lives, either by giving people reason to vote against our rights or beat us in the streets. I feel sorry for your roommate. Telling gay people that they’re going to Hell simply for being who they are is not an “other viewpoint” — it is religiously based bigotry.

    I’m just saying, Kirk Cameron at least says that the people he disagrees with are human beings worth loving, and doesn’t seem afraid to talk and disagree. 

    Oh, please. Kirk’s answer to everyone who doesn’t agree with his warped interpretation of the Bible is “You’re going to Hell.” That is hateful.

    You make it sound like everyone has to agree with you.

    Hardly. Folks can have their bigoted opinions about gay people. They can be Republicans. They can like twinkies and Adam Sandler movies. Be free. However, when you force those opinions, especially ones based in obvious bigotry, on me and my people, I will fight you. Forever. I do not wander around Salt Lake City trying to convince Mormons to become agnostics. I do not try to pass laws preventing Baptists from adopting. I do not have a TV show where I mistranslated the Bible in order to make entire populations sound evil and immoral. Kirk does.

    (At least he never says he hates anyone–you make it clear you do hate, freely.)

    So? At least I admit my feelings. I’d much rather have someone admit that he hates me than claim he loves me while telling me that I’m going Hell for how God made me.

    Hate speech is SO lame.

    I agree. But saying I hate anti-gay bigots is not hate speech. Spreading lies about gay people and their worth as human beings on TV, however, is hate speech. —Ed.

  27. you're says:

    full of bullshit

    I enjoy approving comments like this. It’s easier than writing an entire essay about the lack of civility and intelligence in political discourse. All you need to do is see things like this. —Ed.

  28. kirk says:

    god hates fags

    Thanks, Kirk. —Ed.

  29. Beth Carre says:

    Thank you so much for this article I think Kirk is a Douche. Whoever wrote this you are awesome.

  30. Colby Adams says:

    You make me want to vomit. And so does everyone who supports what you posted up top. Hell is real. Heaven is real. Homosexuality is a sin and so are lots of other things, but the ONLY thing that will keep you out of Heaven is not having Jesus in your heart when you die or when He returns (which ever happens first) I pray for your soul. I pray you won’t look up from the pits of hell someday and beg Kirk Cameron to drop some water on your tongue.

    If sin is a real thing — an actual cosmic category with actual cosmic consequences, which no one has been remotely convincing in proving — I’m sure this comment is pretty sinful, too. Let’s see… we’ve got pride, anger, and a creepy desire for me and people like me to be in pain for eternity. Now that’s some Christian love! What would Jesus say about this comment? Would he praise you for spreading his word about the evils of homosexuality? Probably not, since he didn’t say diddly-squat about homosexuality and rejected Leviticus. But believe he would be appalled by the twisted corruption of his words. Fundamentalists (like you seem to be) are so annoying because you so rarely understand what Christianity is, what faith is, what love is, what cruelty is. Also, there seems to be a strange misuse of the word “real.” You cannot know whether Heaven, Hell, or God are real. You cannot know whether Biblical sins have cosmic consequences. You have faith that these things exist, these cosmic consequences will come; you believe these things to be out there. But are they? There’s no way to know. And you’re doing a worse job than Kirk Cameron has in persuading me. Why would I want to believe in a religion that produces people like you? —Ed.

  31. Amos says:

    OK – I’m really gonna throw a spanner in the works here.  I am a gay Christian.  I totally love Jesus, because He totally deserves it.  He loves us straight, or gay.  Evangelical Christians are deceived but God loves them.  Gay people are loved by God, but not when they take His name in vain and mock and belittle others – including straight people.

    I invest a lot of time trying to build bridges between the gay community and christian churches.  This website is showcasing the worst of both worlds – gays antagonising Christians and showing them unforgiveness, and Christians forgetting the essence of the gospel and attacking those they are called to love.

    Let’s take a deep breath, and start some constructive dialogue.  Yes we’ve all read and heard things that have caused us hurt, but the cool thing is that we can turn the other cheek. 

    Peace and love in Him!

    Amos

    This comment is frustrating. Amos, this website is not a bunch of “gays antagonising [sic] Christians and showing them unforgiveness.” If you read through the entire post and the comments and my responses to your comments as well as some of my many posts of the last 10 years (like this one,), it should be quite clear that I am not attacking all Christians, just the ones, like Kirk Cameron and Ray Comfort, who devote their lives to spreading lies about and hate for gay people. And I think I did a pretty good job with the irony and the satire. (In fact, the minister who married me and my husband wrote in a comment above that some of my words here may end up in a sermon — and not as a bad example.) I have no interest whatsoever in dialogue with people like Cameron and Comfort, because I know that they have no interest in anything but the destruction of my life and family. I have had, and will continue to have, many conversations with religious people, religious leaders, and theologians about these issues. But folks like Cameron and Comfort are evil. I may “forgive” them, in the sense that I would never personally send them to Hell, but I don’t want to talk to them. And I don’t think they or their actions are defensible in any way. —Ed.

  32. Brittney says:

    This is quite an old post, but after reading through these comments, I had to add one of my own.
    Your detailed responses to each and every one of these bigots are both cracking me up and giving me hope for the Internet.  Not many would take the time to answer to these trolls/zealots/misinformed believers, but you did, and I’d like to think that at least one of them stopped and thought about their beliefs because of it.
    I’m bisexual (which comes with its own stereotypes and prejudices even in the GLBT community, ugh) and have taken many an opportunity to lend friends my copy of What the Bible Really Says About Homosexuality.  Though I don’t believe that the Bible is anything but the heavily edited and censored writings of a group of old white men, I know that far too many people base their ideas… and their LAWS… on those writings, so it’s incredibly frustrating that these lies get repeated over and over and over again.
    Gay rumors have exploded in the past few months about Kirk Cameron (do you follow any blind item sites?), and it’s oh so telling that some of the most anti-gay conservatives are the people who turn out to be hiding their own homosexuality.  Anyone this vehemently against something that is very clearly innate, must be reacting out of fear, because the logic just doesn’t line up.

  33. Robbie says:

    You are,unfortunately going to burn in Hell.I am not a gay basher and I know that my sin is no more permissable than yours.

    Tee hee. I love it when my opponents attempt to make an argument and then start with a bizarre oxymoron. Sure, you’re not a gay basher! You just like to tell people they’re going to Hell because they’re gay and won’t repent! How’s that for Christian love. Well, you mention you’ve sinned. Which one? I’d go for hubris. Sadly, that’s not one of the good ones that thumpers like you get wiggy about.

    I also know that because I have a personal relationship with Jesus that I am forgiven for my sins.

    Awesome for you! Kudos.

    His blood that was shed when he hung on that cross that you so foolishly speak of as if it were nothing more than a walk in the park,covers my sins.

    I said no such thing. I mocked the commandment concerning taking the Lord’s name in vain. Kinda different. Did you even bother to read the post or all of the comments? Or are you one of those Christians who doesn’t read anything and just repeats the blithering nonsense spewed by people like Kurt? Probably the latter.

    I know that you think my faith is foolish and I don’t condemn you for that because you aren’t a believer,therefore you don’t know any better.

    I don’t think your faith is foolish (again: read the post and the comments) but I do believe that your comment is foolish. I don’t need to know “better,” because I know a helluva lot more about my agnosticism than you do, a helluva lot more about what the Bible “says” about homosexuality than you do, and I have faith (whee!) that aside from my sarcasm and righteous anger, I’m a damn good person who, if there is actually a heaven or a hell, has nothing to worry about.

    What I will tell you from the bottom of my heart is God has something so much better for you, if you will only give Him an opportunity.

    Better than devoting my life to teaching and helping people suffering from disease, addiction, and poverty? Really? I’m pretty sure that if God exists he or she would rather me do what I’m doing than wandering around telling people they’re going to Hell because they refuse to follow the rules of a religion that has no resemblance to what Jesus or Moses ever wanted.

    I will pray for you.

    Please don’t.

    Not that you will give up being gay but that you will receive Jesus into your heart.

    Jesus was way cool (again: read what I’ve written), and I’m pretty sure I’m living my life a lot more like Jesus than are any of my critics in this thread. But I don’t need to be “saved” by him, or by people like you. I think this quid pro quo crap is really frakked up.

    He will accept you just as you are and he doesn’t condemn you for being gay.He will,however change your heart forever and you will no longer want to participate in homosexuality.

    Really? REALLY? How would you even come to that conclusion? Jesus, even according his apostles, didn’t say anything whatsoever about homosexuality (which didn’t exist as a concept when he was alive) or about men having sex with men (which did exist). And the one thing in the Gospels that even seems kinda gay? Matthew 8:5-13 and Luke 7:1-10 may have been about two male lovers, a Roman centurion and his “servant.” The centurion comes to Jesus and asks him to heal his ill servant, who is described in the earliest texts as a “pais,” or younger male lover. And ya know what? Jesus healed the servant. He healed the centurion’s lover. If Jesus wanted me to be straight, he would have healed the servant and made him straight and then made sure Matthew and Luke said something about it.

    Tell me something,where would this world be heading if every person were gay?We would not see another generation arise and we would become extinct.Does that sound like a reasonable future to you?

    Well, that would be weirdest thing I’ve seen in this thread so far. I don’t want everyone in the world to be gay. Why on earth would you think that was my desire? I like babies. We’ve got too many of them, but they’re pretty cool. Really, all I want is everyone in the world to treat gays and lesbians with love and respect. That’s what Jesus would do. And what you are not doing. At all. If you think you’re serving the Lord by telling me that I’m going to Hell unless I follow your absurd, ahistorical, un-Biblical dictates, to refuse the way the God made me, to refuse to love who I do, trust me: you’re not serving the Lord. You are not doing what Jesus would do. —Ed.

  34. Robbie says:

    I’m not condemning you for telling you are going to hell.I am telling you that it is a shame that you are going to hell.

    The hair-splitting here is amazing. You’re not condemning me, you’re just telling me I’m going to Hell. Geeenius!

    I don’t want you or anyone else to go to hell.

    Ah, that is so sweet. Too bad that you’ve married yourself to a belief system that tells you to go around telling people they’re going to Hell for being true to themselves.

    God had nothing to do with you being gay.

    God, if he or she exists, made me gay. It was not a choice; it is a biological situation. There is not a single educated, rational student of medicine, psychology, or biology who believes otherwise.

    He didn’t create you that way.

    And yet, here I am.

    Being gay is a sin and God has no part in sin.

    Whatevs. If he or she exists, God invented sin.

    Get a bible and read 1 COR.6:9-10.Read ROM.1:26-28.Read LEV.18:22 & LEV.20:13.

    Yeah, I did that. Ages ago. Yawn. Funny how Jesus didn’t mention any of that. Ever. Also: I don’t give a rat’s ass about what the Bible supposedly says about my sexual orientation. The only relevance that these passages have is that people like you — people whose goals in life include telling me that I’m going to Hell, preventing me from having civil rights, from living safe, peaceful, good lives — believe that they have any relevance to modern life.

    Regarding all the wonderful things you are doing with your life,no sarcasm intended,the bible clearly says that it is not by works that you inherit the kingdom of God,but by faith in Jesus.

    Wait — so why bother with sin at all? You’re literally saying that I could commit mass murder and as long as I accept Jesus as my personal savior, I’d go to Heaven? Geeeeenius! Of course, I wasn’t making a comment about “good works” and being “saved,” I was commenting specifically about your claim that God has “something so much better for” me. If I only I’d let give him a chance! Honestly, I don’t want any part of a religion that encourages people to condemn other people to Hell for whom they love. If God is love, nothing you’re saying is remotely in his or her service.

    How you live your life is none of my business

    Are you kidding me? You came to my blog and told me I’m going to Hell! You certainly think it’s your business.

    and I have nothing against gay people.

    Nah! They’re just going to Hell! They’re entire existence is sinful. Nothing against ’em!

    I do firmly believe that anyone that practices homosexuality and doesn’t repent of it,is going to hell.

    How many times do you need to say this? And for Pete’s sake, learn how to put a space after commas and periods!

    You don’t know me so please don’t assume that you know more about agnosticism than I know about Christianity.

    If only you could read. I said my agnosticism. And you don’t know me either. And yet you say I’m going to Hell…

    Your knowledge means nothing to me,your soul does.

    I highly doubt that. If you only cared about my soul, you wouldn’t be arguing with me. Or attempting to.

    I’m very confident that you are going to take each point i’ve made in this blog and respond to them one by one and make yourself feel good and that suits me fine.

    No, it doesn’t suit you fine. If you didn’t care, and your goat wasn’t so easily gotten, you wouldn’t have returned for more. It does makes me feel good that the people who try to argue with me do so ineptly. It gives me hope.

    I have a feeling that no matter what anyone that disagrees with your lifestyle has to say you are going to disregard it and live comfortably in your sin.

    Then why did you bother?

    I can’t do a thing about that except pray that God will change your heart and save your soul.

    If God could change my heart — could change anyone’s heart — why has he allowed me to be the way I am? Allowed you to be so judgmental? Allowed evil to exist? Actually, don’t answer. It will be just as facile as everything else you’ve written here.

    That is what the term “being or getting saved” is referring to,your soul.In regards to your opening comment about me being your opponent,nothing could be farther from the truth.I am not your opponent.

    Sweetheart, if you think that my entire existence is sinful and deserving of damnation, you are my opponent. I will fight to my last breath to make sure people like you do not drive my brothers and sisters into the closet, to suicide, or to churches like yours.

    In regards to your comment about the Roman centurion and his servant,where in the bible or any other piece of literature do you find that they were gay?Please enlighten me.

    Oh, please. If you bothered to do even five minutes of research, you’d know that there are numerous theologians who believe that the centurion and his “pais” were lovers. But why would you bother? You know all! And everyone who disagrees with you is going to Hell.

    In regards to your comment about Heaven and hell,if they really exist,you will know the answer to that soon enough.

    If all the gay people are going to Hell, at least I’ll be with my friends. I don’t want to spend eternity with people who are so opposed to love and honesty and anachronism. —Ed.

  35. Robbie says:

    Goodbye Ted.

    Bye!

    I mean you no harm.

    I could explain in detail (with copious amounts of psychological and sociological research) how going to around telling gays and lesbians that they’re going to Hell is doing them harm, but that would fall, clearly, on deaf ears. Or blind eyes.

    I would gladly be your friend if I knew you and I would defend you if you were being attacked by someone that were trying to harm you.

    Then I think you should donate to PFLAG, GLSEN, the Trevor Project, and to the American Foundation for Equal Rights. But I’m not holding my breath.

    I am not your opponent.Best of luck to you and the work that you are doing to make the world a better place.I am glad that you have something that is so important to you that you defend it tooth and nail.Everyone should stand for something.

    Gee, thanks. But not all “somethings” are equal. Standing for love, honesty, and justice is a lot better than standing for Leviticus 18:22.–Ed.

  36. Robbie says:

    I guess i’m not ready to leave yet and I know that just thrills you to no end.

    I’m not remotely thrilled.

    This blogging that I have been doing with you started from me doing research on Kirk Cameron after going to a local marriage seminar that he conducted.Your picture of him caught my attention and here we are.I am hoping that you wont mind telling me what Kirk said to offend you.

    I state it pretty clearly in the blog.

    I promise you I meant you no harm and I didn’t mean to sound hateful when I told you that you were going to hell.(You are right that really does sound like an oxymoron.) I can see why you became defensive.You have obviously been through a lot in your life dealing with hate and non-acceptance.I hope you will forgive me for offending you.

    I would have if you hadn’t returned. Really, you must have something better to do than this. —Ed.

  37. Robbie says:

    TED-“THE HAIR-SPLITTING HERE IS AMAZING.YOU’RE NOT CONDEMNING ME, YOU’RE JUST TELLING ME I’M GOING TO HELL.”
    ROBBIE-I GUESS YOU GOT ME THERE BECAUSE I WOULD HAVE TO SAY THAT I AM CONDEMNING YOU.I’M ALSO WARNING YOU,THROWING UP A RED FLAG,SOUNDING THE ALARM,ETC.NOT ONLY FOR YOUR UNWILLINGNESS TO SEE THAT YOUR LIFESTYLE IS IMMORAL BUT ALSO BECAUSE OF YOUR SELF-PRIDE AND YOUR HORRIBLE FILTHY MOUTH.EX.-“ON JUDAS’STUDPOLE,ASS-FUCKING, THE BIBLE IS A SERIES OF SHAGGY-DOG JOKES,DUDE I GET THE THOU SHALT NOT KILL SHIT BUT SWEARING MEANS NOTHING.” SWEARING MEANS NOTHING TO AN IMMORAL,JESUS MOCKING,TWISTED BRAIN LIKE YOURSELF BUT IT SHOWS ME THAT THE CONDITION OF YOUR HEART IS MORE THAN “HAIR-SPLITTING” HORRIBLE.JUST SAYIN.

    OMG. Are you drunk? This is just nonsense. All caps? Really?

    TED-JESUS WAS WAY COOL(AGAIN:READ WHAT I’VE WRITTEN), AND I’M PRETTY SURE I’M LIVING A LOT MORE LIKE JESUS THAN ARE ANY OF MY CRITICS IN THIS THREAD.BUT I DON’T NEED TO BE “SAVED” BY HIM, OR BY PEOPLE LIKE YOU.
    ROBBIE-THERE’S THE PRIDE I’M REFERRING TO.

    Well, that’s the pot calling the kettle an arrogant bastard.

    YOU HONESTLY THINK YOU GOT IT ALL FIGURED OUT.

    Yep.

    YOU BELIEVE YOU CAN KEEP BETTERING PEOPLE’S LIVES AND MAKING THE WORLD A BETTER PLACE TO LIVE IN AND THAT WILL ERASE THE FACT THAT YOU LIVE WITH ROB AND PUT DOWN CHRISTIANS THAT TRY TO MAKE YOU AWARE THAT LIVING IN YOUR MAN-CAVE WITH ROB IS WRONG.

    Uh, no. It will not erase anything. It just doesn’t matter whatsoever that I am married to a man. It only matters in a couple of passages of an old book, and I don’t find any of those passages relevant to my life. And since I’m not a Christian, they’re almost doubly irrelevant, if that’s possible.

    NO ONE WILL EVER BE LIKE JESUS, NOT EVEN KIRK IN HIS CONVERTIBLE????” JESUS IS PERFECT AND THE ONLY WAY THAT AN UN-PERFECT PERSON GETS TO HEAVEN IS TO ASK HIM IN TO THEIR HEART.PERIOD!!!!!!!

    Again, are you drunk? What happened to the contrite apology from last week?

    OF COURSE THAT WILL NEVER HAPPEN FOR YOU BECAUSE YOU HEART IS JUST FINE THE WAY IT IS.LOL!!!
    TED-“WHATEVS. IF HE OR SHE EXISTS,GOD INVENTED SIN.”
    ROBBIE-KIND OF CONTRADICTING YOURSELF AREN’T YOU? ON ONE HAND YOU SAY IF HE EXISTS ON THE OTHER HAND HE INVENTED SIN.SAAAAAAY WHAT????IF YOU DON’T BELIEVE HE EXISTS HOW CAN HE INVENT SOMETHING???

    Do you know the meaning of the word “if”?

    BY THE WAY, HE DOES EXIST AND HE ISN’T IN THE INVENTING BUSINESS, HE IS IN THE CREATING BUSINESS.

    LOL.

    HE CREATED ADAM AND EVE NOT ADAM AND STEVE.

    Is Allen Funt hiding in my bushes? This is just pathetic.

    HE KNEW THAT IF THE WORLD WERE TO POPULATE IT WOULD NEED A VAGINA INVOLVED NOT 2 STUDPOLES.

    Okay. Drunk much?

    TED-“NO, IT DOESN’T SUIT YOU FINE.IF YOU DIDN’T CARE AND YOUR GOAT WASN’T SO EASILY GOTTEN, YOU WOULDN’T HAVE RETURNED FOR MORE.IT DOES MAKE ME FEEL GOOD THAT THE PEOPLE WHO TRY TO ARGUE WITH ME DO SO INEPTLY.IT GIVES ME HOPE.”
    ROBBIE-IT GIVES YOU HOPE???? HOPE FOR WHAT? I THOUGHT YOU HAD ALL THE ANSWERS EINSTEIN, WHATCHA NEED HOPE FOR?

    This is like arguing with a seven-year-old. Why don’t you just call me a doo-doo head and run home? I do have the answers to this question, but I still need to hope that those who haven’t seen the light will eventually see it. And I hope you get the help you need.

    TED-“OH PLEASE.IF YOU BOTHERED TO DO EVEN FIVE MINUTES OF RESEARCH,YOU’D KNOW THAT THERE ARE NUMEROUS THEOLOGIANS WHO BELIEVE THAT THE CENTURION AND HIS ‘PAIS’ WERE LOVERS.BUT WHY WOULD YOU BOTHER?YOU KNOW ALL! AND EVERYONE THAT DISAGREES WITH YOU IS GOING TO HELL.AND YA KNOW WHAT? JESUS HEALED THE SERVANT. HE HEALED THE CENTURION’S LOVER.IF JESUS WANTED ME TO BE STRAIGHT, HE WOULD HAVE HEALED THE SERVANT AND MADE HIM STRAIGHT AND THEN MADE SURE MATTHEW AND LUKE SAID SOMETHING ABOUT IT.”
    ROBBIE-I DON’T NEED TO DO ANY RESEARCH.

    Clearly! Why bother with research when you have your blistering arrogance to propel you?

    THEOLOGIANS DON’T HAVE MY ETERNITY IN THEIR HANDS, GOD DOES.GOD’S WORD IS THE ABSOLUTE TRUTH AND I DON’T SEE ANYWHERE IN THE BIBLE WHERE IT SAYS THAT THE CENTURION AND HIS SERVANT WERE LIVING IN A MAN-CAVE RIDING EACH OTHERS STUD-POLES!!!JESUS HEALED A LOT OF PEOPLE AND IF YOU WERE TO DO FIVE MINUTES WORTH OF STUDYING YOU WOULD SEE THAT IN ALL CASES WHERE THE PERSON THAT HE WAS HEALING WAS SICK DUE TO THEIR SIN HE WOULD TELL THEM TO GO AND SIN NO MORE.THAT TELLS ME THAT IF THE CENTURION WERE GAY WITH HIS SERVANT GOD WOULD HAVE PLAINLY STATED IT AND JESUS WOULD HAVE TOLD THE CENTURION TO SIN NO MORE.INSTEAD HE COMPLIMENTED HIM FOR BELIEVING THAT ALL JESUS HAD TO DO WAS SAY THE WORD AND HIS SERVANT WOULD BE HEALED.THAT IS WHAT THIS PASSAGE IS TRYING TO TEACH US….FAITH.NOT THAT THE CENTURION AND HIS SERVANT WERE GAY BUT THAT FAITH IN JESUS,NOT THEOLOGIANS, IS WHAT IT TAKES TO GET TO HEAVEN.YOU AREN’T WORRIED ABOUT GETTING TO HEAVEN AND THAT IS MADE CLEAR HERE…

    Do you know what a logical fallacy is? Probably not. But you’re right about one thing: I don’t give a rat’s ass about what you think will or won’t send me to heaven or hell. But I do think it’s kind of amusing that you think this rant will have any effect on me. I mean, beyond taking away the 15 minutes that I’m losing responding to your silliness.

    TED-“IF ALL GAY PEOPLE ARE GOING TO HELL, AT LEAST I’LL BE WITH MY FRIENDS.”
    ROBBIE-AWWWW.THAT IS SO SWEET. WHY DON’T YOU GET ELTON JOHN TO SING YOU A LULLABY EVERY NIGHT.OR MAYBE ELLEN COULD DO SOME OF HER COMEDY FOR YOU.YOU WILL NEED SOMETHING TO TAKE YOUR MIND OFF OF THE FACT THAT YOU ARE ENGULFED IN FLAMES!!!

    Your Christian love is so endearing.

    BY THE WAY I DON’T PITY YOU ANYMORE.

    But now I’m beginning to pity you.

    I TOOK YOUR ADVICE AND READ YOUR IGNORANT BLOG AGAIN AND THERE IS ABSOLUTELY NO HOPE FOR YOU.

    If only you’d come to that conclusion 10 days ago, we wouldn’t have to had to go through this.

    PLEASE BLOG BACK AND SHOW THE STRAIGHT CHRISTIAN PEOPLE, WHO IF THEY ARE RIGHT ARE GOING TO HEAVEN AND IF THEY ARE WRONG,OH WELL,HOW IGNORANT YOU ARE.

    This just don’t make any sense. Can’t they read this entry? I have to do it again? Are they so dense they can’t figure it out the first time?

    SHOW THE GAY,PRIDEFUL NON-GOD-FEARING PEOPLE,THAT IF THEY ARE RIGHT,SO WHAT,AND IF THEY ARE WRONG OUUCCHH,THAT YOU ARE ONE INTELLECTUAL PERSON THAT THINKS HE HAS ALL THE ANSWERS.

    At least you think I’m an intellectual! Yay! And, yes, I think I’ve got some answers, but not all. Like, duh. I believe with utter certainty that my sexual orientation is morally neutral, that the Bible was not written by God but by some people who might have been divinely inspired, who wrote what they thought was right and good at the time, but who had no clue about a lot of things we do have a clue about in the modern world, like food, sex, and hygiene. I know with certainty that Jesus didn’t say anything about homosexuality. And I know with certainty that you are at least as, if not more, arrogant about your faith and condemnation of my life than I am about my own beliefs.

    I WON’T BE HERE TO READ IT BECAUSE I DO NOT CARE TO SEE SUCH NONSENSE ANYMORE.

    Promises, promises. This is the third time you’ve said this. Forgive me if I don’t hold my breath.

    GOOD LUCK WITH YOUR ETERNAL DESTINY AND HAVE FUN WITH ALL YOUR FRIENDS IN HELL.
     
    And folks wonder why I’m so dismissive of fundamentalists. —Ed.
     
     
     

  38. Esteban says:

    Pinches Putos….
    Gays to the hell

    Thanks, Esteban. It looks like mypotosina@hotmail.com is your email address, and I invite folks to contact you if they want to get together and discuss your complex, thoughtful theological views. I hope that it is actually your email address, because lying about it would be very un-Christian of you. Though I wouldn’t be surprised if someone who leaves cowardly internet graffiti like your comment would be both a liar and a faux Christian. —Ed.

  39. Ma Spear says:

    Wow…this is the most judgemental, sarcastic, self righteous, hateful back-and-forth I’ve seen in quite a long time.  Good luck with that, y’all.

    I respond in kind. Hearts! —Ed.

  40. Bill Hotdamn Ballistik says:

    That was fun.  Woo!
     
    Christians have it in their heads that you will believe their judgmental trollery all the more if it’s posted in all-caps..  With lots of exclamation points.
     
    I think some of these guys above doth protesteth too much, and only dream of living their lives in freedom.
     
    ..Freedom from the “All Loving,” monstrously evil ogre they worship, mainly from fear of the good ol’ Hellfire n Brimstone.   What sorry, craven people these are.
     
    Christianity is special because it is one of the few well-established theological systems that makes less sense the more I study it rather than making more sense.
     
    Chock full of plot holes that Edward D. Wood would be mortally embarrassed by..
     
    Christianity FAILs as a belief system all around, and its adherents likewise FAIL.
     
    Thank you and please enjoy your day.  <3

  41. MickeyG says:

    I am a Christian. Even I am offended by some of Kirk Cameron’s sayings and actions. I am sorry that he is a represenative of my faith. The taking the Lord’s name in vain commandment has been so misinterpreted through the years that people think it is only about cursing. It’s also about using the Lord’s name and persona to further your own agendas and ideas. So some of these so-called spokesmen for Christ are actually breaking this commandment more than atheists or agnostics. People now days are so unnecessarily concerned with someones sexual preference, in the Bible Jesus never railed against homosexuals. He went off on church leaders and religious holier-than-thou people ( Sadducees and Pharisees). Oh and I found your site when I typed in Kirk Cameron and dinosaur bones! ( I can’t believe he actually said and did that with any seriousness).

  42. C says:

    First, if you’re actually Christian, you only hate Satan. Second, I think Kirk is fake. He was Hollywood raised. I believe he’s a plant meant to gain the weaker Christians’ trust, kimda like celebrity pastors. But as a teen, he did a whole snake photoshoot, with one pointing towards the right eye. Anyone familiar with symbolism is in the know. I believe you’re falling for the farse. He’s meant to make Christians look bad, and turn hate toward the faith. I don’t know about his sister though. She doesn’t rock the boat.

  43. John Lark says:

    I guess the God is love idea kind of loses it’s panache’ with me when I read about folks like Kirk Cameron going around telling everyone, gay believers included, that they are going to hell. Someone needs to tell him to sit his tired ass down and start listening a bit more and talking a lot less. That’s just how I see it and I am a 57 year old white cis-male California libtard. God bless!

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